Absolute Power

[Darksage]

Me and Sithreis were having a conversation and it eventually turned to the idea of power. We discussed a mathematical definition of absolute power and whether or not we thought it was possible. Here is the basic theory:


Let power be defined quantitatively
Let C be the power value of one person
Let D be the set containing the power of every other person
{set D + C = entire population)
Let ||D|| be the sum of every value in set D
Let D max be the greatest value in set D
C, all values in set D, ||D||, and the entire population are unbounded and never constant


Theorem of the Existence of Absolute Power

In order for C to have absolute power over the entire population at any given moment, the following must be true:

C > ||D||

-OR-

C > D max
The debate was whether or not you need to have more power than any other person or every other person combined to have absolute power. After our discussion we concluded that C > ||D|| is the correct answer.

Here is our discussion:

Sithreis says (11:24 PM):
-.-
Professors must either hate you, or hate you and want to consume your power
<_<
Darksage says (11:25 PM):
my calculus professor loves me
cause he teaches theoretically
Sithreis says (11:25 PM):
:/ He wants your power
"Oh I have enough, but why not more?"
Darksage says (11:26 PM):
his power exceeds mine
Sithreis says (11:26 PM):
Power never stops increasing, or it isn't power
HAVEN'T YOU SEEN DRAGON BALL Z?
Darksage says (11:27 PM):
“his power exceeds mine”
Sithreis says (11:27 PM):
Goku trained against krillin *tense*
Darksage says (11:27 PM):
that doesn’t contradict what you said
though I’m not sure if I agree with it anyway
Sithreis says (11:27 PM):
lol
Darksage says (11:28 PM):
perhaps if we amended it
Sithreis says (11:28 PM):
You mean
Beta
>_>
Darksage says (11:28 PM):
power never stops increasing or it isn’t power
hmmm
well power is relative based on the power of others
Sithreis says (11:28 PM):
And other people are constantly increasing in power
Let me put it into words you'll understand
YOU
Have a Zelda game....
and
You have beaten it
yet continue to play it
If you stop playing and some newbie starts playing it
and ends up playing longer than you
Your power is now less

Darksage says (11:30 PM):
so let’s say you have a set D that includes the power of all things, and my power is C. Let’s assume the power values are constantly changing.
My power is 'real' power if C increases faster than all the values in D OR D decreases faster than C
or any event in which ||C|| > ||D|| is true
Sithreis says (11:31 PM):
This is like Math class all over
When do I hit on chicks and sleep? >_>
Darksage says (11:33 PM):
when ||C|| > ||D|| is not true
Sithreis says (11:33 PM):
mmhmmm?
Darksage says (11:33 PM):
i.e.
when your power equals or exceeds mine
you may sleep
or hit on chicks
Sithreis says (11:34 PM):
But not if your power is increased as mine does
Which is my DZB reference >_>
Darksage says (11:34 PM):
that’s why I said
C increases FASTER than D
to keep me ahead
Sithreis says (11:35 PM):
But you said d includes all things
That makes no sense then
Because if it controls yours and everything it
you are pwned by default
-.-
Darksage says (11:35 PM):
true, D is the set of the power values of all things except me
Sithreis says (11:35 PM):
Ah
Darksage says (11:35 PM):
well you can modify it for anyone
Sithreis says (11:36 PM):
True
Darksage says (11:36 PM):
C is you, D is everyone else
Sithreis says (11:36 PM):
but now I get how you were thinking about that
Not bad
Did you think of it yourself, or is it a law?
Darksage says (11:36 PM):
I made it up
I dunno
Sithreis says (11:36 PM):
Not bad then
You should have said C is you and D is everything in the first place though
kanpeki for 50 points
*tense*
Darksage says (11:37 PM):
*shrug*
Sithreis says (11:38 PM):
Comethefuckon
Darksage says (11:38 PM):
-100 for you then, for being part of set D
Sithreis says (11:38 PM):
lol
Darksage says (11:38 PM):
and to satisfy the inequality
decreasing you faster than decreasing me
keeping ||C||>||D|| true
keeping my power real
Sithreis says (11:39 PM):
You mean keeping your power just above D
<_<
Greedy
Darksage says (11:39 PM):
that’s would actually be amazing
||D||=magnitude of D = power of everyone but me
for mine to be greater
that’s the only thing I was thinking about
Sithreis says (11:40 PM):
I choose power of 0
Darksage says (11:40 PM):
whether to write C>D or ||C||>||D||
Sithreis says (11:40 PM):
To make your power zero
put that into math if you want to
but
I am 0
lol
Darksage says (11:41 PM):
or C>D[max] rather
lets assign it numbers arbitrarily
my power is 10
your power is 8
and your power is the highest in D
Sithreis says (11:41 PM):
if both increase by ten
Darksage says (11:42 PM):
forget that
is my power true
simply my having more than D max
or do I need more power than ||D||
Sithreis says (11:42 PM):
well that would bring about the question
Darksage says (11:42 PM):
which seems unrealistic
Sithreis says (11:42 PM):
how is one to determine power?
What are the grounds for gain and loss?
Darksage says (11:42 PM):
irrelevant
Darksage says (11:43 PM):
if it could only exist by this math
then the question I asked is the only important question
Sithreis says (11:43 PM):
||D|| includes yours as well?
Darksage says (11:43 PM):
no
but wait
Sithreis says (11:44 PM):
just give the values of D ||D|| and C
Darksage says (11:44 PM):
but that’s the question
should the theorem state
Sithreis says (11:44 PM):
then give their properties one more time
Darksage says (11:44 PM):
||C|| > ||D|| or C > D max
Sithreis says (11:45 PM):
OH
I would say that
Darksage says (11:45 PM):
(note that ||C|| = C because C is only a single value set)
Sithreis says (11:45 PM):
now just from |C|| > ||D|| or C > D max
Darksage says (11:45 PM):
so the only difference is
Sithreis says (11:45 PM):
that it can’t be determined
just because
if D max is high
Darksage says (11:46 PM):
||D|| which is the sum of the power of everyone but me, and D max which is the highest power value of anyone but me
Sithreis says (11:46 PM):
yet all combined into ||D|| doesn’t necessarily mean that it will be more than D
SO
C>D would be right
But ||D|| could be more or less
depending on their value
combined value*
Is that what you were looking for?
Darksage says (11:47 PM):
I suppose if you ask for ABSOLUTE power, then you would have to say C>||D||
as then even everyone combines are less than you
Sithreis says (11:47 PM):
BUT
okay look at it this way
Darksage says (11:47 PM):
but in the sense that power isn’t like a force you can just add on to
Sithreis says (11:47 PM):
C=10
D=9
and
Darksage says (11:47 PM):
I would say C > D max is correct
Sithreis says (11:47 PM):
E=8
Darksage says (11:48 PM):
nonono
Sithreis says (11:48 PM):
C>D>E
Darksage says (11:48 PM):
there is no E
Sithreis says (11:48 PM):
just go with it
for now
Darksage says (11:48 PM):
noooooo
Sithreis says (11:48 PM):
since D is a combined power
-.-
Darksage says (11:48 PM):
then
D={9,8}, D max=9
Sithreis says (11:48 PM):
I don’t mean is as a next power
Darksage says (11:48 PM):
it all has to be D if it’s a set
Sithreis says (11:48 PM):
just C>D>part of D
better?
C>D>Part of D
is correct
Darksage says (11:49 PM):
technically no
but fine
Sithreis says (11:49 PM):
-.-
fuck
it
>_>
<_<
Darksage says (11:49 PM):
continue
Sithreis says (11:49 PM):
C>D>part of D
You'd have to know the size of d
and its part
to know it wait wait wait
no
C>Part of D>||D||
Darksage says (11:50 PM):
NO
Sithreis says (11:50 PM):
THATS right
Darksage says (11:50 PM):
nonono
Sithreis says (11:50 PM):
Ill finish and correct me afterwards
before I lose my train of thought
Darksage says (11:50 PM):
||D|| = the sum of every value in the D set
Sithreis says (11:50 PM):
yes
I know
Darksage says (11:50 PM):
a part of the set can’t be greater than the sum
Sithreis says (11:50 PM):
mmhm
the '>'
doesn’t work
hold
let me think for a sec
ah
got it
I usually use paper
so
lol
C>||D||
C>D
C is greater than both
Darksage says (11:51 PM):
what is D
Sithreis says (11:51 PM):
a part of the whole combined 'D'
right?
SO
I got it
Darksage says (11:52 PM):
but it’s irrelevant unless its D max
Sithreis says (11:52 PM):
C will always be greater than D
BECAUSE
you can’t take part of D and then add it back
and get a greater number
You'd have to add something out side of D
SO
new analogy
C= 10 people
D=9 people
Darksage says (11:53 PM):
by adding do you mean increasing?
Sithreis says (11:53 PM):
somewhat
I’m almost through
Darksage says (11:53 PM):
but wait
this is important
Sithreis says (11:53 PM):
You can’t take one of the people from D
and
Darksage says (11:53 PM):
if you mean adding new values
you're wrong
Sithreis says (11:53 PM):
no just
C=10
D=9
you can't
take a value of D away
and add more back
Darksage says (11:54 PM):
D doesn’t equal anything, D is a set, you can call parts o that set D1, D2, etc
Sithreis says (11:54 PM):
you can only take away from its original value
WITHOUT taking from somewhere else
Dammit
Darksage says (11:54 PM):
D contains things
it doesn’t equal things
Sithreis says (11:54 PM):
well
then I’d say
no matter how you divide a pie
it won’t be more than a bigger pie
:/
right?
Darksage says (11:55 PM):
but that’s assuming that the sum of C and ||D|| (all power) is a fixed number
Sithreis says (11:55 PM):
yes
Darksage says (11:55 PM):
so justify that belief
Sithreis says (11:55 PM):
C>D & ||D||
Darksage says (11:55 PM):
one thing at a time
Sithreis says (11:56 PM):
mmhm slowly
I need paper
dammit
Darksage says (11:56 PM):
here, pretty straightforward:
Sithreis says (11:56 PM):
okay
Darksage says (11:56 PM):
let’s suppose we have an expression
for the total sum of all power
called Z
Sithreis says (11:56 PM):
no
stop
too much
Darksage says (11:56 PM):
wait
Sithreis says (11:56 PM):
but that’s assuming that the sum of C and ||D|| (all power) is a fixed number
that’s enough
Darksage says (11:56 PM):
your pizza analogy says that
Sithreis says (11:57 PM):
all I want to say is
IS
Darksage says (11:57 PM):
C + ||D|| = Z
ALWAYS
Sithreis says (11:57 PM):
if you have two numbers
SET
Darksage says (11:57 PM):
and can never exceed or fall below Z
Sithreis says (11:57 PM):
VALUES
Darksage says (11:57 PM):
I don’t believe that
Sithreis says (11:57 PM):
and one is higher than the other
without adding to them
no matter how you rearrange the smaller number
it cannot be larger than C
Darksage says (11:57 PM):
there are 2 flaws with that
Sithreis says (11:58 PM):
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 & 9
are both 9
if c is larger than that
its larger than the 1's
2 3 4 & 9
divided up differently
still less than 10
:/
Darksage says (11:58 PM):
the first being that D is not a fixed set, the number of values in D are always increasing with the population so there is a sort of 'spontaneous addition' which is why I think your pizza analogy is incorrect
Sithreis says (11:58 PM):
OMFG
OMFG
Darksage says (11:59 PM):
the pizza would be getting bigger
constantly
Sithreis says (11:59 PM):
I know
my pizza ratio is right
HOW
Darksage says (11:59 PM):
it’s not
Sithreis says (11:59 PM):
I didn’t take into the decay values
the larger can
be larger in the beginning
but
it can change slower
at a slower pace
Darksage says (12:00 AM):
what do you mean "it can change"?
Sithreis says (12:00 AM):
a pig would eat the pie faster than someone on a diet
so did say that
C>||D||
UNTIL
you find the variable and values
Darksage says (12:01 AM):
therefore
by the definition of C>||D||
power is never attainable
Sithreis says (12:01 AM):
If you ask me
that sounds right
you disagree though right?
Darksage says (12:02 AM):
in the sense that your power value would have to be greater than the sum of 7 billion other values
Sithreis says (12:02 AM):
and the only way for it to remain true is that
Darksage says (12:02 AM):
I think that answers the definition of ABSOLUTE power
Sithreis says (12:02 AM):
C never decreases
right
?
Darksage says (12:02 AM):
C can decrease if ||D|| decreases more
Sithreis says (12:02 AM):
yep
Sithreis says (12:03 AM):
I think we just solved absolute powah
Now
We must post this somewhere
:/
Dude
That is genius
and as long as C has more power
in a power sense
it can keep ..... it can keep D from becoming larger
revelation
Darksage says (12:04 AM):
how
Sithreis says (12:04 AM):
because its stronger
unless D JUMPS
Darksage says (12:04 AM):
that’s the point
Sithreis says (12:04 AM):
wow
That is food for thought
Darksage says (12:05 AM):
these numbers don’t have bounds, values can be increased and decreased by any value at any time, and for set D values can be added into the site constantly
Sithreis says (12:05 AM):
but wouldn’t that mean that
Darksage says (12:05 AM):
the rate at which C would have to increase to remain larger than ||D|| would be enormous
Sithreis says (12:05 AM):
D could actually become C?
Darksage says (12:05 AM):
yes
Sithreis says (12:05 AM):
mmhm
Darksage says (12:06 AM):
C has to be greater
less than is bad
equal is bad
Sithreis says (12:06 AM):
so in fact the value
obtains the level
right?
so C will always be larger
because if D becomes C
C is larger than D that C has become
Darksage says (12:06 AM):
no
Sithreis says (12:06 AM):
my god man
Darksage says (12:07 AM):
we aren’t making a CONDITION
Sithreis says (12:07 AM):
lol
Darksage says (12:07 AM):
saying that C MUST ALWAYS be greater
we're saying if it is
Sithreis says (12:07 AM):
Well that’s that then
You knew all of this already right?
>_>
Darksage says (12:07 AM):
yea
Sithreis says (12:08 AM):
did you learn it in...
Darksage says (12:08 AM):
let me formulate it
Sithreis says (12:08 AM):
*looks at clock*
25 minutes?
<_<

Darksage says (12:08 AM):
I made it up
in 25 minutes
lol
set theory rocks
Sithreis says (12:08 AM):
LOL
LOMOTHERFUCKINGL




But now, what are your thoughts on absolute power? In a purely mathematical sense, do you think it is possible to satisfy the condition for absolute power?

[Sithreis]

Sithreis and I* mataku da! :yelling:

[Sharingan]

man good ol maths days. I can't get the magnitude but supose d was the magnitude.
What your implying is that the value d Is static. That impossible humans die and born every second. What you just said is c is greater then all of d. That's true but let's have fun let's bring in a "e" factor e being nothing constant just a mere method of obtaining if we say c=1 and d=10 how can c be greater. We have to have that e. Ok so now I think that c(e + d) > d and never equal now what ever value d may be it will be constant on both sides. But here's my problem shouldn't e be times by d. Why am I adding...

Btw sith it's sithreis and me not sithreis and I......

[Sithreis]

E (no)

[Editor]

The only thing i could notice on your discussion is Sithreis >_> and <_<.

[bao28]

despite not understanding it to a very high state

i disagree to that theory

cuz in "romance of the three kingdoms"

liu bei was not strong, had little army, and what gave him his values was a bunch of strong generals to support him

and if this makes no sense to u at all, then i have no idea what your talking about, lol

[Sithreis]

That would be C & ||C|| No. You are trying to think of Robin as the D Vs. C (no) Fuck Robin Hood

[Kimeru]

despite not understanding it to a very high state

i disagree to that theory

cuz in "romance of the three kingdoms"

liu bei was not strong, had little army, and what gave him his values was a bunch of strong generals to support him

and if this makes no sense to u at all, then i have no idea what your talking about, lol
Then again, Sangokushi Koumeiden is fiction.

[bao28]

Then again, Sangokushi Koumeiden is fiction.

really? i thought it was history, LOL :S

[Darksage]

Regardless, I wasn't talking about being more powerful only because you have the support of others. I was talking about one person having more power than everyone else combined.

[bao28]

Regardless, I wasn't talking about being more powerful only because you have the support of others. I was talking about one person having more power than everyone else combined.

hm, how does 1 man get more power than every1 else combined?

as in like george w.bush? lol

or

the hulk?

hm, or it could be

mentally? as well? lol :S i dun get this topic T_T

even like the movies nowadays, are portraying america as a country who abuses their power for the good of their country, lol

[Sithreis]

No it was, to make the statement for Absolute Power to be true, what would be the conditions making said statement true. As in, it's already there, and without sliding out of topic, make it true.

[Darksage]

hm, how does 1 man get more power than every1 else combined?
That was also part of the question. I deduced it is impossible.

[Sharingan]

this is totaly stupid.

The math behind this is stupid aswell..

1+1=2, and never will equal 4, without adding to the formula

c > d, will never happen without E.

[Sithreis]

We aren't adding. We are trying to prove That C is a single and D is a whole and That single is larger than a whole, or the largest single within the whole C> D or ||D|| >_> There is no E because power is undefined, I suppose the next equation would be to determine consumption needed for absolute power. However, you should more or less understand that the equation needed for C in that aspect, would requite an immense increase to remain about D, which proves the C > D statement. I believe that we could've used any letter ( or number for that matter ) And the theory would still be plausable. But does....Sage agree? (OO)

[Darksage]

this is totaly stupid.

The math behind this is stupid aswell..

1+1=2, and never will equal 4, without adding to the formula

c > d, will never happen without E.
reply in-conversation with Omar:
Darksage says (5:34 PM):
lets just say
Darksage says (5:35 PM):
we all have power
Darksage says (5:35 PM):
and we can quantify how much power we have
I call my power a variable (C )
and I add up everyone else's power and call it ||D||
Darksage says (5:36 PM):
absolute power means nothing is more powerful than you
which means you must be more powerful than everything else combines
combined*
that's the C > ||D||
Darksage says (5:37 PM):
all we were saying is that by that logic, that inequality (C > ||D||) is the ONLY definition of absolute power
we weren't saying anyone actually had it
just defining it and thinking whether or not it were possible
Darksage says (5:39 PM):
but your 1+1=2 analogy
didn't make sense
Darksage says (5:40 PM):
because the entire idea behind all of this is that how much power we have
is changing
every day
and the world population is changing
every day
Darksage says (5:41 PM):
more people in the world means ||D|| increases which means C has to gain a lot of power
at a very fast rate to remain greater
which is why I find it impossible

[byakugan]

I am just curious if this is based on a closed system.....you state that the population is unbounded and never constant...fine...

but the problem i have is that the earth is not a closed system...there are environmental factors that relate to this equation....populations are dependent on their environment, available resources, geography etc. those factors may enable or disable one person from achieving the end result of absolute power

In other populations, the ability to produce many, many, many, many offspring...shifting the population gene pool in your favor could be argued as absolute power...Take a look at the introduction of non native plant/animal life into an isolated ecosystem and its effect...

I want to further this question by adding another component...
Is it possible for an organism that occupies a mortal lifecycle to wield absolute power?

[Sithreis]

I am just curious if this is based on a closed system.....you state that the population is unbounded and never constant...fine...

but the problem i have is that the earth is not a closed system...there are environmental factors that relate to this equation....populations are dependent on their environment, available resources, geography etc. those factors may enable or disable one person from achieving the end result of absolute power

In other populations, the ability to produce many, many, many, many offspring...shifting the population gene pool in your favor could be argued as absolute power...Take a look at the introduction of non native plant/animal life into an isolated ecosystem and its effect...

I want to further this question by adding another component...
Is it possible for an organism that occupies a mortal lifecycle to wield absolute power?


We are trying to establish one and only one thing with this equation. If one (C) was greater that all the rest (||D||) or the single largest value within the rest, how would that be proved true in terms of math. Where Sage and I determined that it could be true IF and only if C increased at an incomprehensible rate more than D / ||D|| or and that D either increased at a much slower pace, or that it always decreases at an incomprehensible pace.

[byakugan]

duh...

call it elaborate spam then if you want

I just like biology more than math...we do not create the equations, but seek to find examples of where they could be applied

as a result...i was just more interested in looking at factors that could lead to C increasing a faster rate or factors that could force D to increase slower or decrease

[Sithreis]

Well some say math and science create life, but I say until a wingegeeed angel comes down a shows us the light (or we all set ablaze) that there are merely bored people, doing bored people things relating to answers they seek and believe to be true, but we could start a topic like that years from now, when people's opinions change the world the majority of the time (lol)

But as for what you and Omar are wondering, we haven't gotten to those equations yet. Care to try? hu~ha

[byakugan]

nope...when you get there i will design an experiment to see if it is true...you guys are kinda straying into game theory territory...which is always fun, prediciting behavior...you could add a psychology component to that as well...are there members of a population that would rather be subjugated and a C with the appearance of possessing more power than one actually has...

[gakekuroi]

Hmm tough topic

depends how one looks at it, one can obtain power over everyone by merely having somehthing everyone needs, thus controlling the distrubitation bending people to your will, or something only you have position of eg. special kinda weapon ,equipment,robots to name a few

another way is purely being stronger then everyone, not even as a whole ,lets face it if I for example killed what ||D|| considered there best , most if not all would lose moral and leave/switch sides or what ever you want to call it, thus considerably dropping ||D||'s total

1 man never has to really defeat everyone just the few best of everyone , right?


Too Sages statement "C would have to rapidly gain power to maintain greater then ||D||" theres a bit of a loop whole , true every person born increases D's total but an infant wouldnt add much power at start not for probably 10 yrs or more, then youd have to take into account people die just about as fast as people are born thus really D doesnt change a whole lot from deaths or new borns ,more from the people currently alive and advaning in power as well as decreasing( considering diseases , disabilities etc) so D will fluxuate up and down in a certain area really were C as long as he/she stays healthy well always increase

so basically once C>||D|| C will probably maintain that till he/she gets old and decreases or somone like them is born in the near future and is giving the time to grow in power thus increasing D to be greater then C again , though i wouldnt let that happened id kill everyone mother f'er before they could get strong enough :p

[Kimeru]

really? i thought it was history, LOL :S

Well, the videogames and most of the dorama are.

[Sithreis]

But now, what are your thoughts on absolute power? In a purely mathematical sense, do you think it is possible to satisfy the condition for absolute power?

Math sense. We aren't talking about if Legolas kills Sarumon would he be god, or if super man fights batman who would be the strongest. I hate you all. I don't even want to be C anymore. I'll go the the unfathomable 'E' that Omar mentioned. :/

[Sharingan]

we dont get what sage ws saying...

sage is saying for c to be powerful it must be greater the ||D||, Is that not right.




not knowing why it took them 430 lines to discuss and conclude it... i could have come up with the same hypothesis? back in year 1 lol

[Editor]

I know what is missing on the absolute power formula!

+Editor on the theory and everything will be done!

[Sithreis]

(no)You guys suck at this. You are all part of ||D||

[Kimeru]

Fuck ||D||, go with /b/

[Sharingan]

/b/ yay

[WaterSleeps]

Let power be defined quantitatively
Let C be the power value of one person
Let D be the set containing the power of every other person
{set D + C = entire population)
Let ||D|| be the sum of every value in set D
Let D max be the greatest value in set D
C, all values in set D, ||D||, and the entire population are unbounded and never constant


Theorem of the Existence of Absolute Power

In order for C to have absolute power over the entire population at any given moment, the following must be true:

C > ||D||

-OR-

C > D max

But now, what are your thoughts on absolute power? In a purely mathematical sense, do you think it is possible to satisfy the condition for absolute power?

Its an interesting and certainly an amusing topic/discussion. I would just like to point some things out, that you guys are trying to get at.

1st: Your Theorem/Equation as you stated must be true at "any given moment" that is this equation relates to instantaneous single moments of time. Which, if your taking it as this, then you are actually talking about a function of time and bounding the equation, so in sense you are talking about bounded and constant population at that specific moment, and not as you suggested (i.e you do have an actual whole or a "pie" as Sithreis analogy suggests at that "moment")

2nd: Your equation must have limits in order for your theorem to work. That is C and D/||D|| cannot equal to zero at the same time (i.e. 0 > 0 max or 0>||0||). Logistically speaking this is true right before the existence of man kind, and possibly for the end of human existence lol.

3rd: I do like this equation, C > ||D||, it could have been possible, again with time. If you assume that at the beginning of existence there weren't that many early human ancestors, so someone could have had absolute power in my opinion. Right?

4th: I do not think this one is possible to have absolute power, C > D max. Having absolute power of a species is not the same as having power of over the single strongest in that species.

Well of course that my opinion on the subject.

The only thing I liked about absolute power is what my father has always told me, "True power is having the ability of speech, and how many people you can manipulate with that ability" (:])

[Saurabhalab]

Nov 3rd, 2008, 09:05 AM

Today, 09:43 AM

How do you find these things.

[Sithreis]

I mentioned it in the chatbox while reminiscing of better times

[Darksage]

I attained this last Thursday.

[Sithreis]

Not as a demoman however.