Tokyo's Anime & Manga ban

[MiniMoose]

Feeling lazy, here's the link

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/12/13/tokyo-anime-manga-ban-passes/

OH THE HORROR OF IT ALL!

Discuss.

[Shunrai]

my thoughts on the subject: ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha what will all the 2-d lovers do now

[Superoni]

OH THE HORROR OF IT ALL!
:rofl: I wouldn't worry, MiniMoose. Trying to ban something usually just makes it more popular.

[byakugan]

I actually somewhat support this bill. i think it is a good thing in theory. The older I get and the more I advance in the professional arena, the less acceptable ecchi, hentai, lolicon etc is and I have always disliked it. I am a proponent of comic inclusion in schools and teaching and that cannot take place as long as the perception of the genre is dominated by those smaller sub genres. It also prevents, in a way..not overtly, quality manga from doing well and getting made. However, like any gov't special interests have warped it somewhat and i dislike some of the language and the ambiguous nature of some of the legal precedent.

On a side note.... the US is no better, we are not sexualizing youth characters in comics and cartoons, we are actually doing it to real kids in our pop culture, so I see a disconnect there. I think the GQ 'Glee' photoshoot is a great example of that. In terms of print media we tried to do this and succeeded for a few decades with the 'comic code' but things like heavy metal still came out and eventually in the mid 90's everyone started to get around the comic code and I imagine the japanese industry will eventually do the same thing.

[madman_oreo]

Couple of things byakugan, the comic code was a self-imposed idea created by the comic industry, much like the mpaa or esrb ratings, designed as a self-policing method in order to deter the government from passing actual laws and creating actual government ratings or censorship boards. Secondly I disagree with the idea that squashing hentai and ecchi manga will suddenly make the medium look more adult and not perverted, the genie is already out of that bottle so the only real way to remove that aura is for fans to push the idea that it's not just cheap thrills and low brow gutter entertainment, everything from movies to american comics to music have had to go through this type of thing. So yeah...

[byakugan]

You are right...Of course the meduim is not going to look more adult, its comic books, but I think there is a definite perception issue in the US and it is mostly parents, they hear 'law restricting blah blah blah' then the parents of students may relax a little with it. Like all the death note suspensions that happened a while ago...its stupid (I teach part time ata public school). I never stated that the comic code was government mandated at all, i am well aware that the comic code was self mandated and it went beyond comics to incorporate magazines an other print media, but it was due to social and governmental pressure..which is something the manga/anime community should have done to retain more control (which was kinda my point). I also was trying to make the point that this is not the death of anything, nor 'squashing hentai and ecchi' i think it will just create more showy ratings on things and maybe and age increase on some characters but without really changing their character design. I don't think there should be a law that says 'you can't' because that is censorship, but i really really wish the artists and illustrators would agree that things are getting a little ridiculous and police themselves. I disagree with the law because its useless and reactionary, but i hate some of this crap and i like the sentiment of the law in a way. Maybe i am getting older and more irrationally conservative but i cannot see the value in some of this stuff and it is child porn in a manner of speaking to me. I love comics, and will always support manga but i have never liked that aspect of the culture.

[DesertIce]

I completely agree with the sentiment against the law in the sense that it sets a precedent for censorship.
I also concur with the fact that artists and the like should realize that some things are just not tasteful.
My best opinion would hopefully the Japanese public and manga readers at large will edge against this sub-set of manga to decrease the financial incentive. It is a bit disturbing that he market has pulled this topic to this particular point. In any case, I do not want any legal restrictions to freedom of expression.

[MiniMoose]

Fair point to everything you're saying Byakugan, but the thing we're soiling ourselves about is that the Tokyo governor whats-his-name absolutely hates anime and manga and this law hitting in 2011 is so vague in its clauses that it's feared that potentially any series could get cut.

But what I'm astonished about is how the anime industries are reacting to it. I imagine they just hate this idea of the threat of censorship to--what is essentially--their art (it's media entertainment but I think it's still classed as art, maybe we can discuss it in a new thread). Anyway have a looksy

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/12/12/tokyo-anime-fair-before-after/

[Void]

Have you guys read the article ? Some of you sound like 50 year old narrow minded Americans. If you had read this here (and the link it contains):

Even more bizarrely, the final draft actually removed a passage that imposed “a duty not to possess [photographic] child pornography” on Tokyo residents, whilst leaving the section banning erotic manga and anime (and explicitly excluding photographic materials) all but unchanged – that the bill is intended exclusively as an “anti-otaku” law (http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/12/07/tokyo-manga-fans-lead-deadend-lives-find-a-real-girl/) seems to be beyond doubt.

Even though I'm not myself a loli fan, I just can't agree nor see any real logic behind this kind of law.
If you are gonna do something then at least do it right. This clearly shows who they are targeting. I'm not particular a fan of loli but sometimes with the right combination of comedy it can have really good results.
I mean take for example mitsudomoe, it is in a way loli since the main chars are grade schoolers and they do have in that anime certain themes witch would in NO WAY pass the ban (for ex: their hamster is called chikubi = nipple).
But in any case that anime (or the manga) has no ecchi in it. So why should "innocent" shows like that be affected as well ? (tense)

Then there is also a problem with lolis in general. They need to face it. A lot of girls in japan that are 18+ look like they are 15 or 16. So yeah in that case maybe they should also ban all the porn in witch girls wear school uniforms ?

All in all I did spare you the liberty of expression of the artists part that they are crushing (welcome to China2/Area 11) and the utter absurdness of the reason they gave for installing that law in the first place. We need to shelter our children from loli media... oh really ? And why do you think all the ecchi loli shows are rated 16+ ? Its like banning porn so that children won't accidentally pick it up on the TV late at night... (-.-)

Oh and lets not sink into paranoia and link this law with a certain statement they made publicly about how many Hikikomoris (= a shut in / real NoLife) there are in Japan and that they plan on doing something agents it soon:
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/02/06/japan-has-3600000-hikikomori/

[byakugan]

I really do not see this affecting the industry like you all think, but I am not right, nor was I trying to create a black and white-right and wrong stance. I am admittedly a little irrationally conservative on this issue, i said that in my post, partly because i am teacher and started my doctorate this year, so that forces me to be a little. I think that there is a problem with loli, ecchi and hentai (a sentiment which a few others in this thread seem to share) and I wish the industry would have policed themselves prior to this point. But the rest of you are right, it is censorship and sets precedent for further censorship and that = fail times.

Have you guys read the article ? Some of you sound like 50 year old narrow minded Americans. If you had read this here (and the link it contains):

Who cares about that article....it is opinion. That is sankaku's take on the law rooted in ambiguous language taken from the bill and it is super biased, they are taking the doom and gloom stance. I don't see the article having any base in whats actually going to happen.The quotes they pulled and exposition on the quotes and the take on the bill itself is no different then the news in the US in the endless conservative vs. liberal argument. Sankaku and kotaku are both spewing doom and gloom nonsense. It reminds me (not the same type of issue of course but the way it is being reported is similar) of a couple months ago when there was the publishers consortium trying to stop online scans, there was a huge reaction any a lot of sites pulled down licensed manga, but a majority of them are back. Politicians grandstand, people make bold claims and then move on to the next social outrage without doing anything. Maybe japan is different, but I doubt it. One piece is not going anywhere, nor are any other series that sell well...i think more than anything, money will drive this issue.

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/12/12/tokyo-anime-fair-before-after/

[Darksage]

lol

I had sort of a similar reaction to byakugan's when Void IMed me a link to the sankaku article about this. The people over at sankaku are a bunch of bastards so their disapproval of the bill was enough for me to start to think it wasn't really so bad. Pure ecchi, loli, and hentai is a bunch of crap and I don't know why publishers allow so much of it out there. This is the way censorship goes: either the industry censors itself (ie, the MPAA) or the government does it for them; and if it comes to that, its almost always more severe. It's their own fault. zzzz.