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View Full Version : Power of Equality among Staff members an illusion. How this can be avoided...


Hellspire
06/06/2005, 03:43 PM
Read this brief conversation. Not the best at proving my point that I have had in the past with people, but may be good for some of you out there...

***
[14:01] Me: or you could just work for me
[14:01] Me: it all works
[14:01] Him: true*
[14:01] Him: i'll work for ya
[14:03] Him: as long as its something high up you know
[14:05] Me: :D
[14:06] Me: a lot of people will be working for me
[14:06] Me: swift and ck might
[14:06] Me: all depends.
[14:08] Him: i know but if its just some low job i have much better things to do. i spent 2 years being the lower person
[14:08] Me: the lower person in bad jobs
[14:08] Him: i always got the "content writer" or something like that
[14:09] Me: and what would you prefer doing?
[14:09] Me: is there really anything else but content writing and management?
[14:09] Me: xD
[14:09] Him: management
[14:10] Me: ah well
[14:10] Me: most sites use crappy inclusions
[14:10] Me: ?page=
[14:10] Me: so management is nonexistant beyond the ftp holder.
[14:11] Me: whereas a cms like what I'm designing has users who if given permission can post and manage their articles as well as the input from other users.
[14:11] Me: this solves the problem you face
[14:11] Him: my face
[14:11] Him: o
[14:11] Me: as it brings both aspects together
[14:11] Me: however, let us not confuse things (not in terms of us working but with the cms aspect)
[14:11] Me: content management still relies on administrators
[14:12] Me: even if the users get permissions
[14:12] Me: the role of amanger remains the province of the administrator regardless
[14:12] Him: im up anything
[14:12] Him: if i screw up once you can fire me
[14:13] Me: I see, but there is no job to fire you from
[14:13] Me: I'm talking about july here
[14:14] Me: anyway let me tell you something
[14:14] Me: I used to run bluexl with this guy
[14:14] Me: and I was right up there as co-webmaster
[14:14] Me: but regardless
[14:14] Me: it was still his site
[14:14] Me: and when he sold it
[14:14] Me: I got shit
[14:14] Me: after that
[14:14] Me: I refused EVER
[14:14] Me: to work for another site unless I got something out of it or I controlled it in some way
[14:15] Me: I wish to correct that for the people who work for me so as not for them to suffer the same fate
[14:15] Me: but I refuse to EVER work for someone.
[14:15] Him: well, %site-name-removed%
[14:15] Me: not saying the converse is the weak approach
[14:15] Me: but there you have it
[14:15] Him: i got a nothing out of it
[14:16] Him: all i ask is for some power over the site
[14:16] Me: well on my cms
[14:16] Me: there are normal users who can view and comment, participate in polls and surveys, and events, etc.
[14:16] Me: there are moderators who control this input from those users
[14:17] Me: there are managers who take content submitted, review and perfect and then add it
[14:17] Me: there are administrators who do all these tasks
[14:17] Me: much like a forum
[14:17] Him: i c
[14:17] Me: each user thus
[14:17] Me: can contribute
[14:17] Him: and what would i be
[14:18] Me: nevertheless the power is clearly divided and defined.
[14:18] Me: depends
[14:18] Me: to be a moderator you have to be someone I trust
[14:18] Me: to be a manager
[14:18] Me: the same as moderator but with a good content submission rating
[14:18] Him: do you trust me
[14:18] Me: to be a manager the same as both but with added foundation etc.
[14:19] Me: I do
[14:19] Me: so you can be either the moderator or manager
[14:19] Me: but you must submit content though ;)
[14:19] Him: i see
[14:19] Me: this raises the question
[14:19] Me: has anything actually changed for you
[14:19] Me: or rather, will change
[14:19] Him: but you realize that i need content for my site also
[14:20] Me: why open another site when you can work for an established one?
[14:20] Him: mines is purly design
[14:20] Him: but
[14:21] Him: if i get any anime content
[14:21] Him: i'll submit it
[14:21] Him: just teach me the ropes
[14:21] Me: it is not necessary to work for me
[14:21] Him: ?
[14:21] Me: you can just join the site (when it opens)
[14:21] Me: submit content and get promoted
[14:21] Me: or you can take the shortcut
[14:21] Me: works the same way
[14:21] Me: by the end of this year
[14:22] Me: i expect perhaps
[14:22] Me: um nvm
[14:23] Me: I think you see my point
[14:23] Me: ?
[14:23] Me: you don't have to sign yourself off as my employee right now
[14:23] Me: just keep it in mind when the time comes ;)
[14:24] Him: but would if i want to work for you? i have a feeling your site is going to be big, and i will like to be apart of it
[14:27] Him: you there
[14:28] Me: :D
[14:28] Me: it should be big
[14:29] Him: i hope so
[14:30] Him: hey, i gotta go eat lunch
[14:30] Him: can we talk about this more later?
[14:31] Me: anytime you wish
[14:31] Him: k

This conversation proves one thing. That equality among staff members is an illusion and always will be no-matter what. However, this can be avoiding using a CMS, such as PHPNuke or a custom made CMS like the one I am making. If some of you are wondering why working for other people never gets you anywhere this is because you are not in an equal relationship. If you are, I must say that you are either deluded or have the best partnership and more happiness to you! If not, please understand that as long as you work for other sites that contribute to an unequal partnership then you may eventually decide to create your own site that you control which puts you in power, but STILL disadvantages others.

Understand this, and don't make the same mistake that people have been making for years. You will not succeed with sites unless you and all your staff are equal in some respect. As my point in the conversation suggests, even though a CMS resolves this issue with a member system and posting abilities, there is still the issue of inequality. Inequality can NEVER be solved in my opinion; however, that doesn't mean that you should go out and make another site that will only do the same things to others. Remember this doesn't happen with all sites, only those that have content that multiple staff members submit in someway.

Hope this helps those of you out there. If I ever find my old conversations I will post them here.

Stevil
06/06/2005, 04:40 PM
Cool.

Whats the name of your site going to be again?

Omar S
06/06/2005, 05:31 PM
Cool.

Whats the name of your site going to be again?


i swear we are suposed to comment it lol i think he was expecting 10 or phew lines commenting him

Stevil
06/06/2005, 05:49 PM
Yeah, but for a debate, there's not much to debate on.

CK
06/06/2005, 07:25 PM
i would like for u to pm me this persons name

Swift
06/06/2005, 07:32 PM
Equality among staff is never going to happen. I prefer to be the absolute ruler! Seriously though, giving too much power to staff can be bad. I prefer to review anything they make before it's posted, make sure it's all good and stuff. Plus I don't want an angry staff to go crazy with my site =)

CK
06/06/2005, 07:37 PM
i dont agree with equal power

for 2 reasons what swift said and also what hapened to anime express
hahahahahaha that was amusing but was a prime example of what can happen
but like if i trust you or if i respect you i will give them a large amount of power

Stevil
06/06/2005, 07:55 PM
It could work if you were good friends with all the staff members.

CK
06/06/2005, 07:57 PM
but how rarely dose that happen

some times you hire people because u need them

Stevil
06/06/2005, 07:59 PM
True. It's best to hire people you know, if you can.

CK
06/06/2005, 08:28 PM
it would work with grrrm but not all sites

Hellspire
06/06/2005, 08:36 PM
Of course, but my point is that regardless of how equal power is, there will ALWAYS be that level of disdinction. The one who holds the domain or pays for the hosting (even if you share the price, if it comes from person a's CC then person a is in control in that respect). Based on the hardwired nature of these sites (non-dynamic) it not only contributes to an unequal environment (in whatever respect as even with a slightly equal there is always a disdinction in power) but breeds more potential webmasters who will do the same thing if they start a site in the same respect.

Therefore, a CMS type system helps avoid such situations, and stem such effects.

Omar S
06/07/2005, 02:10 PM
me and ma mate viku made 3 sites together me and him were all co-owners at saiyan planet saiyan reign and ani-dojo. all closed now but the thing was i never felt the authority of actually i "owned" the sites even though we were best mates and like we known each other for a long time i still felt that feeling when you dont own a site n stuff, he payed for everything and i just helped him with the site. but i never got the same respect by fans for example viku would get all the atention of the comments i didnt feel like i really owned it. its reality you can tell your mind asmuch as you want but its not true in reality. the thing was i really got atached to saiyan reign and when he closed it i had no say in it all i could do was persuade him to make another one so i named it ani-dojo also we worked on that really hard i did all the work worked ma arse off even with the tital of webmaster/owner it was up to viku at the end of the day to delete it and he did. the site was no more and i didnt have one say to do with it. i absolutley hate working on half with people i rather work on my own then i wouldnt have to go through all the drama of a site closing when you get atached to it. like sites like anime origins and sonofdbz they all are sites i liked at and worked at the end of the day they still closed down

you see titles on the net are nothing because whatever the end of the day the owner the true payer has all the say the workers may say as much persuade but it all falls down onto the owner and also the webmaster can hire and fire any one he wishes so really even a cms couldnt do much fine it ranks user titles but whats that really thats nothing you cant do much. on websites espeically anime sites there cant be same user levels its all the power of the webmaster.

so overall even the mates u know for a long time not even u can have teh same respect or title as them when you work with them on the site (if there the payers) it dont matter if your best mates because end of the day its the owners buisness not yours even if you try alot u cant do much, and it seems a very hard way to get the same user respect or ect like that

Swift
06/07/2005, 04:03 PM
Agreed. Same thing with me and Yusayoh, despite how good we got along.(sorry Yu)

James
06/07/2005, 07:08 PM
I used to have old sites where forsaken worked with me, there was trust so we shared alot of the information and power but things happened (personal) so it died out over time.

Plus, CMS like PHPNuke can get hacked easy.

Omar S
06/08/2005, 01:27 PM
so true. i wish this topic would be reasearche on more. not alot of people understand this. *N00BS*

CK
06/08/2005, 01:31 PM
well it works on fusion outrage kinda
well cz,mark and i all have are parts and we share the power

Hellspire
06/08/2005, 01:47 PM
In response to Omars comments:

Yes I said that, CMS only prevents the propogation of sites that further spread this vile habit on the internet. Equality is something that is earned only through mutual understanding and respect. The disdinction between staff and administrator, and even administrator and mini-administrators like swift, yusayoh, etc. is clearly defined. The difference and the prupose of running a site on a system that involves the community more is to balance the equation and close the gap. For me on BlueXL, I was very much respected, but still Darkspire got most of the credit (the foo stole my name >_<) anyway, it turned out alright I guess.

As for the PHPNuke crap... a CMS is a content management system and a member script built into it with a good interface between the two (much the same as a forum and its posts made by its posters which are moderated by other posters who take on that responsibility) achieves a nice harmony. PHPNuke is crap I agree, but still nevertheless, MUCH better than other shit you found out there (I refuse to ever use it due to its sloppy nature and vunerabilities). Besides that, member scripts much like the one that bleachdj has has plenty of vunerabilities, as possibly does on narutofan or any other site for that matter. The point is RELATIVE improvement and NOT absolute perfection.

Omar S
06/08/2005, 04:18 PM
i wish one man could make the ultimate cms ive worked with so many cms but yet they are sho shit. if some one had the heart to help this comunity they could make a cms that was definded to work with anime sites, but you see people nowa days are greedy some people charge others to veiw content. i feel ashamed of the comunity now