Should God intervene....

[Stephine]

what do you think about this. If God is real(which I believe he is) should he help us with our problems and what not?

I will say wthat I think about this a little later.

[IQMast]

Well. No. If he would help one of us, then others would want too. Btw, that's why they are called problems: to take them out ourselves. =]

[Swift]

He helps, just not directly, he influences.

[Darksage]

Well wait what religion is this for?

[Swift]

Christianity in general, it would make no difference really.

[Darksage]

Well the answer will vary depending on what he's intevening in.

[Swift]

Yea, I eman he intervined with Moses in Egypt, look how bad that turned out?

Joke of course. I think he should intervine a bit more. For people whose lives are hell, not because it's their fault but because of things out of their control.

[Darksage]

:lol:

Well, it says in the Beattitudes that (basically a summary of them all in one): if your life sucks on earth and you believe in god you will go to heaven and live in Paradise.

[Swift]

Well yes, but... it just seems wrong to let people suffer. Even life on earth is nothing.

[Darksage]

Yeah, so people have to just make the most of what they have *shrugs*

[Swift]

You know... I envy you(well kind of, don't want to break a sin here). You go through so much(your story) yet you have so much hope and faith. It's amazing really.

[Darksage]

Heh, well I need to have something to hold on too, that being the reason I get angry when people say a religion is false for no reason

And the world needs people to inspire them (not saying I myself am one of those people)

[Swift]

Yes I know. That's cool man. I often find myself questioning the bible(not God). I can't ehlp but wonder sometimes that perhaps some of it was added or editted from the real thing.

[Darksage]

~It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err.
]
It's natural for people to wonder that, but rare for people to believe it.

[DarkMagicianGrl]

I believe he does, but not unless its hightly needed. If he were to help eveerytime things got rough wed all be a bunch of wimps.


"if it wernt for the hard times that show our weakness, then we wouldnt appreciate the times that show our strengths"

^ my quote.

[Darksage]

That's an excellent quote.
And yes God does intervene sometimes (Egypt, Red Sea, Flood, etc.,.)

[Swift]

But that was long ago, thus why this topic was created. Why not intervene again?

[Darksage]

When people say that, I reply with this:
Think of the September 11 attacks. Many people ask themselves and others what kind of a God would let such a horrible thing happen. But after all, it did take something that drastic to unite americans, and it only lasted for a short time.

If we didnt screw up in the first place God wouldn't really have to intervene

[TaCktiX]

God intervenes constantly. He never is not intervening. However, his intervention may not necessarily be the "saving" kind most are looking for. A lot of people are under the misconception that God is only around to come to the rescue and get you out of a mess. Not necessarily. Some of the toughest times in our lives end up being the most helpful, because they make us stronger. God has a purpose for everything, it just might not be readily apparent at the time.

As for suffering for seemingly no reason, we live in a fallen world, marred by sin. God cannot keep the influence of sin from causing bad things from happening. Heaven will be without suffering because it is without sin.

Bible verse to remember:
"And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28 (ESV)

As for questioning the Bible, translations cause lots of "huh?" moments. When the English Standard Version talks about Adam and Eve having their first kids, Adam "knew" Eve. Other parts need to be taken with a grain of salt and a nonliteral interpretation (particularly Revelation, which makes no concrete sense if you take it literally). The only way to get the true gist of what the verses are saying is either by reading the original text (Hebrew for Old Testament, Greek for New Testament), or get a commentary on the verses you're curious about (easily found anywhere, including the web).

[Darksage]

I see your point, but if it's his plan it's not technically intervening.

and heck yeah The Book of Revelation gets you no where when you think literally.

[Vol Opt OS]

god should not intervine, the incodent of moses and god's intervention could have been a religious belief that happen a while before. it did have moses freeing the hebrews at the end, but it could have been from something else instead of the christian god of the time. an egyptian belief that had only 1 god did reign at the time and it could have been a possiability that moses was influence by some crazy way to do what he has done.

anyways, god shouldnt intervine, it gives whoever is on the other end of the stick the disadvantage. if he gave use free will why would he need to intervine? we should intervine not some dumb ass in the white house. we did reunite during 9/11 but after, everything went right back to it.

something bad that happens could be someone's good at the end. like the life os a phoenix. it lives, then dies, but from its ashes it lives anew. it is good as it lives, but when it dies its bad, but it returns to its state of living from dying returning to good.

[Swift]

Nope pretty sure freeing the Hebrews was God's work. I don't see any other religion with different a different God talking about it so yea.

[Darksage]

Yeah. And God wasn't being cruel, it was just giving the Egyptians what they deserved

[Vol Opt OS]

I finnaly found the scientific proof for the moses dealings.
if first starts with the cult of the sun god, which basically kicks out the other gods in the egyptian hierarchy and turns into a monotheistic religious awakening. it was a small cult, but then grew big enough that it then became increasingly important until it evolved into the uncompromising monotheism of Pharaoh Akhenaten. Akhenaten's religious ideas did not survive his death. His ideas were abandoned in part because of the economic collapse that ensued at the end of his reign.

moses was in the teachings of what is called 'sacred geometry'. from this it could be plausable that he stumbled upon the already deaden religious cult of the sun god. where is became intune to it. from there you can follow the rest of the bible as you all know what happens after. and i dont recall anything about god being cruel. and that was a mean blow to the egyptians ds.

and remember its just a throey i have heard that was just recently going around. you dont have to kill it.

[Darksage]

It might have been mean of God, but "an eye for an eye..." I suppose

[Vol Opt OS]

good point, but it is also stated to love neighbors and such. its a god thing >:3

[Swift]

Midn you God had Moses ask the Pharoah nice/without violence for the people's freedom many times.

[Darksage]

Midn you God had Moses ask the Pharoah nice/without violence for the people's freedom many times.
Yeah, there is even a song about it.

[TaCktiX]

More than one song, actually, the most recent being "Pharoah, Pharoah," a praise and worship song, complete with hand motions for teenagers who want to do more than just sing.

I finnaly found the scientific proof for the moses dealings.
if first starts with the cult of the sun god, which basically kicks out the other gods in the egyptian hierarchy and turns into a monotheistic religious awakening. it was a small cult, but then grew big enough that it then became increasingly important until it evolved into the uncompromising monotheism of Pharaoh Akhenaten. Akhenaten's religious ideas did not survive his death. His ideas were abandoned in part because of the economic collapse that ensued at the end of his reign.

moses was in the teachings of what is called 'sacred geometry'. from this it could be plausable that he stumbled upon the already deaden religious cult of the sun god. where is became intune to it. from there you can follow the rest of the bible as you all know what happens after. and i dont recall anything about god being cruel. and that was a mean blow to the egyptians ds.

and remember its just a throey i have heard that was just recently going around. you dont have to kill it.

Mmk, it's just a theory, but why did you use the words "scientific proof?" Last time I checked, a theory was something that was accepted as plausible. In science, there is no such thing as "proof." There is merely evidence pointing toward one possibility (consider how many times the concepts of space and time have changed over the past 1000 years), and that one possibility is taken as the "best explanation" until something displaces it.

Honestly, I believe the theory is absolute bullshit. There is historical fact behind the Exodus and the Plagues that preceeded it. Trying to shove an event that makes scientists uncomfortable because of its religious content into a completely different thing is not science, it's excusing.

[reply to other things said]

Just because it's not obvious that God is intervening doesn't mean He isn't. God can be subtle.

[reply to Hellspire]

What is your basis for being Atheist, and why are all religions merely "feel good" things?

[Darksage]

good point, but it is also stated to love neighbors and such. its a god thing >:3
In ancient times they lived by this rule:

"Lay upon the transgressor his transgression."

[TaCktiX]

Hence the difference between the Old and New Testaments. The Old Testament has strict punishments for pretty much everything (I dare you to survive just 5 chapters of Leviticus), while the New Testament has the New Covenant of Love, Forgiveness, and Grace.

[Darksage]

Hah Leviticus was awessome

[Swift]

Lol, I was just going to say... the ten commandments came AFTER the escape.

[Darksage]

Hah, well There are really like 620 Commandments

[Lomesir22]

Hah, well There are really like 620 Commandments

No, there are not. The Talmud, the book of the law for the Jews, added all those 'commandments'. Christians do not follow them. You will not find those in the Christian Bible.

[Darksage]

Ah, thats right. Forgot, hehehe

[TaCktiX]

Yes, the 620 laws are restricted to Jews who still follow the Old Covenant. Any Christian or Messianic Jew has far fewer. Really, there are only two commandments *pulls out Matthew*: "And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 'Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?' And he said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. Thisi s the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.'" Matthew 22:35-40 (ESV)

As for the Ten Commandments themselves, they are the commemoration of God's Old Covenant with the nation of Israel, in acknowledgement of him bringing them out of Egypt.

[Darksage]

If you believe in the existence of a God you can't be athiest :ninja: